The Conversation -- June 22, 2025
The New York Times' live updates for today of the Israel/Iran/U.S. war are here: “American warplanes and submarines attacked three key nuclear sites in Iran early Sunday, bringing the U.S. military directly into Israel’s war and prompting fears that the strikes could lead to more dangerous escalations across the Middle East.... [Donald] Trump said the objective was the 'destruction of Iran’s nuclear enrichment capacity.' He claimed success, saying in a televised address from the White House that the nuclear facilities had been 'completely and totally obliterated.' 'Iran, the bully of the Middle East, must now make peace,' Mr. Trump said. 'If they do not, future attacks will be far greater and a lot easier.' The strikes ushered in a period of high alert in the region, where more than 40,000 American troops are on bases and warships, as the Pentagon braced for almost-certain retaliation.... On Sunday morning..., air-raid sirens in Israel were warning of incoming Iranian ballistic missile fire. The Israeli authorities said that at least 16 people had been wounded in the barrage....
“Top Republicans rallied behind Mr. Trump, calling the strikes a necessary check on Iran’s nuclear ambitions. But senior Democrats and some Republican lawmakers condemned the move as unconstitutional and said that it could drag the United States into a broader war.... Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said early Sunday that the U.S. strikes had been carried out 'in full coordination' between the American and Israeli militaries.... A U.S. official said that six B-2 bombers dropped a dozen 30,000-pound bunker buster bombs on the Fordo nuclear site, which lies deep underground, and Navy submarines fired 30 TLAM cruise missiles at Natanz and another nuclear site in Isfahan. One B-2 also dropped two bunker busters on Natanz, according to the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss military operations. The strikes marked the first time the U.S. Air Force had ever used the 30,000-pound bomb, called the GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator, in combat.” ~~~
The AP's live updates of the Israel/Iran/U.S. war are here: “... Donald Trump says Iran’s key nuclear sites were 'completely and fully obliterated' by U.S. strikes. Speaking at the White House hours after the attacks, he threatened more strikes and said Iran faced a choice between 'peace or tragedy.'” (Also linked late yesterday.) ~~~
~~~ Video of Trump's speech is here. The transcript, provided by the AP, is here. It was a stupid, embarrassing speech of the sort you'd expect from Cadet Bonespurs. ~~~
~~~ ⭐ The New York Times' live updates of the Israel/Iran/U.S. war are here (also linked earlier Saturday): “The United States has entered Israel’s war against Iran. American warplanes dropped bombs on three nuclear sites in Iran on Saturday..., [Donald] Trump announced on Saturday night, bringing the U.S. military directly into the war after days of uncertainty about whether he would intervene. 'All planes are now outside of Iran air space,' he said in a post on social media, adding that a 'full payload' of bombs had been dropped on Fordo, the heavily fortified underground facility in Iran that is critical to its nuclear program. 'All planes are safely on their way home.' The three sites that Mr. Trump said were hit on Saturday night included Iran’s two major uranium enrichment centers: the mountain facility at Fordo and a larger enrichment plant at Natanz, which Israel struck several days ago with smaller weapons. The third site, near the ancient city of Isfahan, is where Iran is believed to keep its near-bomb-grade enriched uranium, which inspectors saw just two weeks ago.” (Also linked late yesterday.) ~~~
~~~ Aamer Madhani, et al., of the AP: “... Donald Trump said Saturday that the U.S. military struck three sites in Iran, directly joining Israel ’s effort to decapitate the country’s nuclear program in a risky gambit to weaken a longtime foe amid Tehran’s threat of reprisals that could spark a wider regional conflict.... 'We have completed our very successful attack on the three Nuclear sites in Iran, including Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan,' Trump said in a post on social media. 'All planes are now outside of Iran air space. A full payload of BOMBS was dropped on the primary site, Fordow. All planes are safely on their way home.' Trump added in a later post that he would address the national at 10:00 p.m. eastern time, writing 'This is an HISTORIC MOMENT FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ISRAEL, AND THE WORLD. IRAN MUST NOW AGREE TO END THIS WAR. THANK YOU!'” (Also linked late yesterday.) ~~~
~~~ Marie: That first tweet, the one with the BOMBS, ends with the inappropriate, business-letter convention, "Thank you for your attention to this matter!" AND who the hell tweets, tweets! "I dropped some really big ole BOMBS! Thank you for your attention to this matter!" announcing a war with the same devil-may-care attitude he takes in defaming all of us "radical liberal lunatics" or whatever nonsense he goes on about?
~~~ Here's one reason -- though certainly not the primary reason -- you don't use your crap social media platform to announce you just plunged your country into a new war: ~~~
~~~ Aanchal Sinha of News18 (India): "Just minutes after ... Donald Trump announced that the US had bombed Iran’s nuclear sites, the social media platform Truth Social went down across the United States on Saturday evening. As of 8:20 p.m. EDT, DownDetector had received over 1,700 reports of outages, with many users experiencing server issues affecting both the app and the website."
Sahil Kapur of NBC News: "Several members of Congress in both parties Saturday questioned the legality of ... Donald Trump’s move to launch military strikes on Iran. While Republican leaders [including Mike Johnson & John Thune] and many rank-and-file members stood by Trump’s decision to bomb Iran’s major nuclear enrichment facilities, at least two GOP lawmakers joined Democrats across the party spectrum in suggesting it was unconstitutional for him to bomb Iran without approval from Congress." ~~~
~~~ Joe Gould, et al., of Politico: "... Donald Trump’s sudden announcement Saturday night that he bombed three Iranian nuclear sites has Republican skeptics of U.S. military action against Iran largely falling in line. The prospect of strikes against Iran had sparked backlash from Democrats and days of infighting within Trump’s MAGA coalition, but after the president posted on Truth Social that the U.S. has bombed Iran, several GOP critics cheered the strikes as a limited action. Several top Democrats denounced the strikes as illegal and warned they could drag the U.S. into another Middle East war." ~~~
~~~ Stephen Neukam of Axios: "Top Democrats on Capitol Hill say they weren't briefed in advance of the U.S. attack on Iran on Saturday.... Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) and Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.), the top Democrats on the Senate and House Intelligence panels, weren't briefed before the attack, sources familiar told Axios on Saturday. Their Republican counterparts were given advance notice. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) was given what was described by a source as a perfunctory notice shortly before ... [Donald] Trump's announcement on Saturday night."
David Sanger, et al., of the New York Times: Donald “Trump unleashed a show of raw military might that each of his last four predecessors had deliberately avoided, for fear of plunging the United States into war in the Middle East. He is betting that the United States can repel whatever retaliation Iran’s leadership orders against more than 40,000 American troops spread over bases throughout the region. All are within range of Tehran’s missile fleet, even after eight days of relentless attacks by Israel. And he is betting that he can deter a vastly debilitated Iran from using its familiar techniques — terrorism, hostage-taking and cyberattacks — as a more indirect line of attack to wreak revenge. Most importantly, he is betting that he has destroyed Iran’s chances of ever reconstituting its nuclear program. That is an ambitious goal: Iran has made clear that, if attacked, it would exit the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and take its vast program underground.”
Helene Cooper, et al., of the New York Times: “The U.S. strikes on nuclear sites in Iran are an extraordinary turn for a military that was supposed to be moving on from two decades of forever wars in the Middle East, and they put the United States back on war footing. Across the region, where more than 40,000 American troops are on bases and warships, the strikes ushered in a period of high alert as the Pentagon braced for almost-certain retaliation from Iran.... The strikes, whether successful or not, are likely to trigger a fierce response. Tehran has vowed to strike at American bases in the Middle East, and American intelligence agencies confirmed before the strikes took place that Iran would take steps to widen the war and hit U.S. forces in the region.... Iran has many ways to retaliate, including naval assets and other capabilities it would need to shut down the Strait of Hormuz, a move that could pin any U.S. Navy ships in the Persian Gulf, American military officials say. Iranian officials have threatened to mine the strait if the United States joined Israel’s attack on the country.”
Ilan Goldenberg in Foreign Affairs: “Events could turn in several directions. The American attack could indeed lead to Iranian capitulation on terms friendly to Israel and the United States. But it is equally or even more likely to draw the United States deeper into the war with profoundly negative consequences. Iran will almost certainly seek some manner of retribution, perhaps by attacking nearby U.S. bases and potentially killing U.S. soldiers. That could lead to ever widening escalation, with devastating effects for the region and American entanglement in a war that few Americans want.... Iran’s most likely response will be to attack U.S. bases in the Arabian Peninsula or in Iraq just as Iran did in response to the American strike that killed the Iranian military leader Qasem Soleimani in 2020. Under siege from two powerful adversaries, Iran’s leadership may choose to launch a limited number of missiles at U.S. bases, just as it did in 2020.... Accidents and miscalculations could make things much worse.... Given the number of variables..., much will depend on the wisdom and restraint of Trump, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khameini, and the people around them. And that does not bode well in the short or long term.” ~~~
~~~ Marie: These are three reckless, demagogical, dictatorial, doddering old men, all of whom believe some god is blessing their every move, and none of whom has much longer to live on this sorry planet. Any decision any of them makes is certain to be flawed. And that is where the gods and the people have placed the future of the Earth.
Scott Lemieux in LG&$: "If I may once again be forgiven to invoke such quaint anachronisms..., Bush’s logical successor’s bombing of Iran is not, how you say, legal[.]... The combination of an immense standing army and completely supine legislative majorities render any constitutional checks and balances moot." Lemieux' citation of a few lines from an opinion by Justice Robert Jackson, written nearly 3/4ths of a century ago, is apt. MB: We are a nation of foolish and forgetful people. If we learn almost nothing from our own experiences, we learn nothing at all from our elders and their experiences.
Scott Lemieux in LG&$: What AOC said.
Robert Reich on Substack: “A single person — Donald J. Trump — has released the dogs of war on one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and done it without the consent of Congress, our allies, or even a clear explanation to the American people. Anyone who has doubted Trump’s intention to replace American democracy with a dictatorship should now be fully disabused.... The attacks fit perfectly with Trump’s desire to divert attention from his multiple failures at home.... Besides, there’s nothing like a war to help a wannabe dictator like Trump justify more 'emergency' powers.... Trump is being advised on Iran by a close-knit group of political advisers and ideologues, none of whom has deep knowledge of Iran or the Middle East. All are totally loyal to Trump.... As a result, he’s probably getting decent advice about what’s good for Trump but not about what’s good for America or the world.... Trump claims that the facilities were 'completely and totally obliterated,' but who trusts Trump to tell the truth, or to be told the truth?”
Dan Perry of the Forward: "If Iran does not try to fight back — a big if — we are looking at an Israeli-American victory that may rehabilitate the embattled Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, reset the strategic equation in the Middle East, and weaken the Islamic Republic to the point that its existence may be endangered.... What should follow are negotiations that leave Iran isolated, weakened and exposed. The U.S. and Israel should demand not only an abrogation of any further nuclear ambitions on the part of Iran, but also the end of its project of spreading chaos around the Middle East via proxy militias.... But if Iran retaliates, the more likely outcome is a U.S.-Israeli war aimed at toppling the Iranian regime."
Naftali Bendavid of the Washington Post: “... Donald Trump [is taking] aim at post-Watergate reforms on transparency, spending, conflicts of interest and more. By challenging and disregarding, in letter or in spirit, this slew of 1970s laws [designed to prevent the ways in which Richard Nixon exploited the presidency], Trump is essentially closing the 50-year post-Watergate chapter of American history — and ushering in a new era of shaky guardrails and blurred separation of powers. In 1976, for example, Congress created a 10-year term for FBI directors; Trump has forced out two FBI directors. The Impoundment Control Act of 1974 aimed to prevent presidents from dismantling agencies; Trump has essentially done just that. Lawmakers in 1978 installed independent inspectors general in government offices; Trump has fired many of them and is seeking to replace them with loyalists. Trump has also disregarded post-Watergate safeguards intended to prevent the unjustified firings of federal workers.” ~~~
~~~ Marie: Many of the unethical things Nixon did were not necessarily against the law. But most of the laws written to prevent Nixon 2.0 are still on the books, and Trump is violating them. Congressional sheeples are allowing him to do so. The courts, though attempting to thwart some of Trump's most illegal and unconstitutional acts, will probably be overruled by the majority of the Supreme Court which follows the Nixon Rule, now modified to assert, "If a Republican president* does it, it's not illegal."
Jonah Bromwich of the New York Times: “Mahmoud Khalil walked through a nondescript door into a Newark airport lobby on Saturday, his wife to his left, a congresswoman to his right and a stroller in front of him. His fist was raised and he could not stop smiling.... When Mr. Khalil emerged at the Newark airport with his wife, Dr. Noor Abdalla, and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, he was quickly surrounded by roughly 50 supporters, reporters, lawyers and relatives. Mr. Khalil briefly addressed the crowd, saying he would immediately resume his outspoken work on behalf of Palestinian rights, speech he said that should be celebrated rather than punished.”
Catie Edmondson of the New York Times: “Elizabeth MacDonough, the [Senate] parliamentarian..., on Friday night rejected a bid by Republicans to slash federal food aid payments as part of their sweeping legislation carrying ... [Donald] Trump’s domestic agenda, sending party leaders scrambling to find another way to help offset the massive cost of the bill.... Republicans are moving the bill through Congress using special rules that shield it from a filibuster, depriving Democrats of the ability to block it. But to qualify for that protection, the legislation must comply with a rigorous set of budgetary restrictions meant to ensure that it will not add to the deficit.... [Ms.] MacDonough ... ruled that the SNAP measure, which would push some of the costs of nutrition assistance onto the states, did not [meet the requirements].... She also said Republicans could not include a provision that would bar immigrants who are not citizens or lawful permanent residents from receiving SNAP benefits, according to Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, the top Democrat on the Budget Committee.” The AP report is here. ~~~
~~~ Congressional Republicans cannot stop thinking of stupid things to do: ~~~
~~~ Jacob Bogage of the Washington Post: “A little-noticed provision of ... Donald Trump and Republicans’ massive tax and immigration legislation would force the government to undo billions of dollars in electric vehicle investments made by the U.S. Postal Service, unwinding much of the Biden administration’s climate push at the mail agency while dealing it a sharp financial setback.... The Senate’s version of Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill would see the General Services Administration take possession of the nearly 7,200 new postal EVs and associated infrastructure and put the assets up for auction. The proposal is unlikely to generate much revenue for the government; there is almost no private-sector interest in the mail trucks, and used EV charging equipment — built specifically for the Postal Service and already installed in postal facilities — generally cannot be resold.” MB: You remember how Rand Paul was supposed to be so upset about the budget deficit that he was going to vote against the Big Bad Bill? Well, this USPS change to the bill that wastes even more federal money (and of course damages the environment) is Little Randy's bright idea. ~~~
~~~ The Sad-Sack Suck-Ups of the 119th Congress. Joe Heim of the Washington Post: “House Republicans have proposed at least eight bills since January to honor the president or burnish his image. They would, among other things, put Trump’s portrait on U.S. currency, carve his face onto Mount Rushmore, rename Washington Dulles International Airport for him and make his birthday a national holiday. Two bills, both introduced by Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Georgia), called for the House to expunge Trump’s impeachments in 2019 and 2021. Longtime political observers say the GOP’s legislative love fest for the president is well outside of congressional norms. While members have often proposed legislation that honors presidents, it is almost never while they are still in office.”
For those of you who think "it was just a blow-job," explain this: ~~~
~~~ Lewinsky's Abuser Endorses (Alleged!) Serial Sexual Harasser. Emma Fitzsimmons of the New York Times: “Former President Bill Clinton will offer a last-minute boost of support for former Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo by endorsing him in the New York City mayor’s race on Sunday, the last day of early voting. Mr. Cuomo worked in the Clinton administration as the housing secretary, and the former president’s backing, as well as a taped robocall providing his support, could help turn out older voters in the tightening Democratic mayoral primary on Tuesday. Mr. Clinton will use the robocall to tell voters that he hired Mr. Cuomo 'because he knows how to get things done' and that they had worked together on homelessness and on improving 'communities that had been left behind.'”
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Florida. Richard Fausset of the New York Times: A University of Florida law student named Preston Damsky, who “is also a white nationalist and antisemite..., won an academic honor after he argued in a paper that the Constitution applies only to white people.... In his capstone paper for the class, Mr. Damsky argued that the framers had intended for the phrase 'We the People,' in the Constitution’s preamble, to refer exclusively to white people. From there, he argued for the removal of voting rights protections for nonwhites, and for the issuance of shoot-to-kill orders against 'criminal infiltrators at the border.' Turning over the country to 'a nonwhite majority,' Mr. Damsky wrote, would constitute a 'terrible crime.' White people, he warned, 'cannot be expected to meekly swallow this demographic assault on their sovereignty.'... The Trump-nominated judge who taught the class, John L. Badalamenti..., [gave him] the 'book award,' which designated him as the best student in the class.” Emphasis added. Read on. Thank you to Akhilleus for the link. Since also his comments (there are two) in yesterday's thread. ~~~
~~~ Marie: We have a federal judge, confirmed by the Senate, who is, at the least, a white supremacist and Nazi sympathizer. I'd suggest that Hakeem Jeffries put "Impeach Badalamenti" on his to-do list for the next time Democrats take control of the House. No use asking Bible Mike to do it; he's one of those "Christians" who hang pictures in their living rooms depicting Norwegian Jesus.
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Texas, et al. Why Is Separation of Church & State So Hard for Rubes to Understand? Jim Vertuno of the AP: “Texas will require all public school classrooms to display the Ten Commandments under a new law that will make the state the nation’s largest to attempt to impose such a mandate. Gov. Greg Abbott announced Saturday that he signed the bill, which is expected to draw a legal challenge from critics who consider it an unconstitutional violation of the separation of church and state. A similar law in Louisiana was blocked when a federal appeals court ruled Friday that it was unconstitutional. Arkansas also has a similar law that has been challenged in federal court. The Texas measure easily passed in the Republican-controlled state House and Senate in the legislative session that ended June 2.” ~~~
~~~ Marie: I would hazard a guess that quite a number of the rubes who voted for these state Ten Commandment laws are Baptists. I'll own that there are Baptists and Baptists, but they do share similar theologies. And today's rubes -- who don't know much of anything anyhow -- might be surprised to learn -- not that they're capable of learning much -- that an early articulation of the doctrine of "separation of church and state" was made by then-President Thomas Jefferson in a reply to a plea from the Danbury (Connecticut) Baptists who were mightily concerned about their religious freedom. Jefferson assured them that the "separation of church and state" as declared by "the whole American people" meant that the state could not establish some other religion nor prohibit them from practicing theirs. That is, those dimwitted Baptists in Texas & elsewhere who are trying to impose their religion on others are able to practice that Baptist religion only because the Constitution embraced by "the whole American people" guarantees Baptists their freedom from the imposition of any state religion on Baptists -- and the rest of us.
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Canada/E.U. Gonna Get Along Without You Now. CTV News: “A security and defence partnership pact Prime Minister Mark Carney will sign with European leaders in Brussels on Monday will be among the most wide-ranging agreements with a third country Europe has ever reached, a senior EU official said on Friday. Carney is flying to Europe Sunday for a Canada — EU Summit, planned for Monday evening with European Council President António Costa and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. At the G7 summit in Alberta on Monday von der Leyen confirmed that the agreement will be signed on Monday in Brussels, calling Canada a 'key partner.' 'This is also a moment where we can strengthen Canada’s role in Europe’s rapidly evolving defence architecture,' said Von der Leyen on June 16.... Carney has been clear that he intends to expand Canada’s ties with Europe as its relationship with the United States strains under the weight of tariffs and threats of annexation.” Thanks to RAS for the link.
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Reader Comments (6)
Once again, we’re starting a war with a country that has not attacked us. But while Fatty is dropping bombs to prove his balls aren’t the size of BBs, so stop saying that!, he is finding other ways of killing people, in this case Americans, with his not at all dangerous plan to Make Asbestos Great Agaim!
Why would even someone as demonstrably stoopid as Trump lift a ban on a substance known 100% to cause cancer?
Several reasons, I suppose. In 1997, in one of his ghostwritten sucky book-like things, Scientist Trump, after zero investigations to support such a claim, said asbestos was 100% safe!
Um…no! But okay.
Second, Biden banned it. Oh, well! What a great reason to un-ban it!
But as with anything this transactional anal cyst does, it’s useful to ask “cui bono”? Who stands to benefit from re-introducing a deadly substance into American homes?
Hmmm…who is the largest producer of asbestos in the world?
Answer: Russia!
Let’s kill Americans to curry favor with a dictator who lives to adversely impact the United States in any way he can.
The ways in which this fat scumbag is an evil scourge just keep piling up.
Well, shit.
Authorization of Force from Congress? No.
Coalition of the "willing"? No. Us and Israel, that's it.
Bush took us to war against a country half the size, almost surely knowing that those Weapons of Mass Destruction didn't really exist.
Iran is large, sophisticated, and connected.
This is so wrong.
Once again, was doing a little thinking that was overtaken by events.
The ethics piece I was preparing for next week's paper will need revision now that the ditherer has decided.
Looks like the Pretender thinks a couple of bunker busters will obliterate not just the Iran nuclear facilities but also all memory of the Iran nuclear treaty that he scuttled in 2017, perhaps the most egregious of the many Humpty Dumpty moments of his first go round.
But I do wonder if Iran could have taken the bunker buster in the White House off the board by letting him build a few hotels in Teheran and maybe a golf course at Fordo.
Tom Nichols, in The Atlantic, on What Comes Next
"Only one outcome is certain: Hypocrisy in the region and around the world will reach galactic levels as nations wring their hands and silently pray that the B-2s carrying the bunker-buster bombs did their job.
Beyond that, the most optimistic view is that the introduction of American muscle into this war will produce a humiliating end to Iran’s long-standing nuclear ambitions, enable more political disorder in Iran, and finally create the conditions for the fall of the mullahs.
The very worst outcome is the polar opposite of the optimistic case. In this bleak alternative, the Air Force either didn’t find, or couldn’t destroy, all of the key parts of the Iranian program; the Iranians then try to sprint across the finish line to a bomb. In the meantime, Tehran lashes out against U.S. targets in the region and closes the Strait of Hormuz. "
Bill Curry, in Salon, asks whether a mental condition is driving [t****'s] foreign policy
"Trump has long vowed to apply his mythical negotiating skills to the world’s thorniest problems. In Ukraine and Gaza, he failed utterly. Striking a nuclear deal with Iran was his last best chance to shine. Negotiations began in April, which to Trump was a lifetime ago. He needed a fix and would wait no longer.
Last week, Trump proclaimed negotiations the right path to peace with Iran — but hey, things change. A bad parade, a boring G7 and Netanyahu's sudden stardom were all it took for Trump to drop everything he, or rather people in his employ, had worked for. Peace was out. War was in. His mission now was to take the reins from Netanyahu, or rather to foster the false impression he’d held them all along.'
In so many ways, the blowback from this stupid move by a stupid child, manipulated by all sides, too erratic, unqualified, unprepared, and unsure, likely won’t come from Iran directly as much as it will from agents of terror and chaos who have been handed a new reason to target America.
The last idiot R, the Decider, triggered almost a global awakening of terrorism.
Netanyahu’s attack, ignoring the pleas of the fat bully in the Blight House, had the desired effect. Bibi likely knew that Trump had neither the intelligence to know he’d been played, nor the backbone to resist the pull into going along with violence, Trump’s only fallback position.
Now that fat bully will demand (and is already receiving) accolades and simpering applause for an attack made necessary only because he foolishly tore up an agreement that was WORKING!
It’s as if he set fire to a house, then blew it up to keep that fire from spreading, and demands a medal for “fixing” things.
The law of unintended consequences is already unspooling and once again, the fallout from the idiocy of yet another fucking Republican will be left for the next Democratic President to deal with. All we do is clean up their messes.