The Conversation -- June 23, 2025
The New York Times' live updates of developments Monday in the Israel/Iran/U.S. war are here: “Civilians, diplomats and military officials on several continents were waiting anxiously on Monday to see the ramifications of ... [Donald] Trump’s decision to bomb a trio of Iranian nuclear sites over the weekend, a move that will almost certainly have far-reaching impacts on global security. After the bombings on Sunday brought the United States into Israel’s war against Iran, fears grew ... of a dangerously escalating conflict across the region. American military and intelligence officials detected potential signs that Iran-backed militias were preparing to attack American bases in Iraq, and possibly Syria.... [Iran's] Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi was expected to meet with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia on Monday.... And world leaders and diplomats were scrambling to prevent more violence. E.U. foreign ministers discussed the situation in Iran on Monday. The war, and the U.S. strikes will likely dominate a NATO summit that opens at The Hague on Tuesday.” ~~~
~~~ The Washington Post's live updates for today are here: “Iran is weighing its response and said at an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council that it reserved the right to defend itself against 'blatant U.S. aggression.'... Donald Trump — who is slated to meet with his national security team Monday afternoon — raised the prospect of regime change in Tehran, undercutting the messaging from his top officials. He also continued to claim substantial damage to the nuclear facilities without providing additional evidence. The International Atomic Energy Agency is assessing the damage. As the world awaits the ramifications of the U.S. strikes, Israel and Iran continued to trade fire into an 11th day, with explosions heard over both countries.” ~~~
~~~ Donnie Dimwit Unable to Stay on Message. Felicia Schwartz & Amy MacKinnon of Politico: “... Donald Trump’s top national security officials spent much of Sunday insisting his administration doesn’t want to bring about the end of Iran’s government, only its nuclear program. Then Trump left the door open for exactly that. 'It’s not politically correct to use the term, “Regime Change,” but if the current Iranian Regime is unable to MAKE IRAN GREAT AGAIN, why wouldn’t there be a Regime change??? MIGA!!!' Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.... His words undercut what had appeared to be a coordinated message from his top advisers. Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth each insisted Sunday that the U.S. was only interested in dismantling Iran’s nuclear capabilities.”
Meg Kelly, et al., of the Washington Post: “Satellite images provide the first glimpses of the aftermath of U.S. strikes on three sites said to be central to Iran’s nuclear program, revealing severe damage at aboveground facilities as well as the entry points left by bombs that burrowed deep underground to target some of the program’s most protected operations.” The article includes numerous photos and some analysis.
In keeping with Donald Trump's inability to "act presidential," JayDee has followed on by demonstrating that he doesn't know how to "act vice-presidential": ~~~
~~~ Joe Sommerlad of the Independent: “Speaking to Kristen Welker on NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday morning, hours after the U.S. launched airstrikes against three Iranian nuclear sites in support of Israel’s Operation Rising Lion offensive, [JD] Vance attacked Bush’s administration and those of Democrats Barack Obama and Joe Biden without directly naming them. 'I certainly empathize with Americans who are exhausted after 25 years of foreign entanglements in the Middle East,' he said. 'I understand the concern, but the difference is that, back then, we had dumb presidents and now we have a president who actually knows how to accomplish America’s national security objectives....'” Nevermind that Trump doesn't know how to stick to those objectives and he keeps making unsubstantiated claims about the success of the mission (see WashPo liveblog); he's not as dumb” as those former presidents.
Hugo Lowell of the Guardian: “The US defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, on Sunday repeated claims by Donald Trump that US strikes had completely destroyed Iran’s nuclear facilities and its ability to acquire nuclear weapons even as the Pentagon acknowledged it was too early to provide a full damage assessment. At a news conference, Hegseth and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Gen Dan Caine, said the strikes, codenamed Operation Midnight Hammer, devastated the Iranian nuclear program. 'Thanks to President Trump’s bold and visionary leadership and his commitment to peace through strength, Iran’s nuclear ambitions have been obliterated,' Hegseth said. 'The operation President Trump planned was bold and it was brilliant.'” MB: Good to know. (Also linked yesterday.)
Jon Gambrell, et al., of the AP: “Amid fears of a wider regional conflict, the Trump administration sent a clear message that it wanted to restart diplomatic talks with Iran. 'Let’s meet directly,' Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in an interview with CBS. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told reporters that the U.S. 'does not seek war.' But Tehran said the time for diplomacy had passed and that it has the right to defend itself. Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi said he would immediately fly to Moscow to coordinate with close ally Russia.” (Also linked yesterday.)
Well, gosh darn, maybe the U.S. military strikes did not “completely and fully obliterate” Iran's nuclear sites as Donald Trump said last night. According to the NYT live updates Sunday, l“Pentagon officials said on Sunday that three of Iran’s nuclear sites sustained 'severe damage' from the U.S. strikes.... The full extent of the damage to the sites was not immediately clear, and top Pentagon officials later said that it was too soon to say whether Iran still retains some nuclear ability.” And even JayDee would say only that “'I think we set [Iran's nuclear] program back substantially, and we did it without endangering the lives of the American pilots.' Later, when [NBC's Kristin] Welker pressed again on Mr. Trump’s claim late on Saturday that the three bombed facilities were 'totally obliterated,' Mr. Vance would not answer directly. '... I feel very confident that we’ve substantially delayed their development of a nuclear weapon,' Mr. Vance said. 'And that was the goal of this attack.'” You might be excused for speculating that the Big Grifter had oversold his supposed success. (Also linked yesterday.) ~~~
~~~ Update: David Sanger writes, “A day after ... [Donald] Trump declared that Iran’s nuclear program had been 'completely and totally obliterated' by American bunker-busting bombs and a barrage of missiles, the actual state of the program seemed far more murky, with senior officials conceding they did not know the fate of Iran’s stockpile of near-bomb-grade uranium.... In a briefing for reporters on Sunday, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and the new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Dan Caine, avoided Mr. Trump’s maximalist claims of success. They said an initial battle-damage assessment of all three sites struck by Air Force B-2 bombers and Navy Tomahawk missiles showed 'severe damage and destruction.' Satellite photographs of the primary target, the Fordo uranium enrichment plant that Iran built under a mountain, showed several holes where a dozen 30,000-pound Massive Ordnance Penetrators ... punched deep holes in the rock. The Israeli military’s initial analysis concluded that the site, the target of American and Israeli military planners for more than 26 years, sustained serious damage from the strike but had not been completely destroyed. But there was also evidence, according to two Israeli officials with knowledge of the intelligence, that Iran had moved equipment and [enriched] uranium from the site in recent days.” Here's Sanger's full article on what's known and what's not.
Here's someone who diaagrees with JayDee about who the "dumb" president may be: ~~~
Simon Tisdale of the Guardian: “Trump says he has not declared war on Iran. He claims the attack is not an opening salvo in a campaign aimed at triggering regime change in Tehran. But that’s not how Iran’s politicians and people will see it. Trump’s premature bragging about 'spectacular' success, and threats of more and bigger bombs, sound like the words of a ruthless conqueror intent on total, crushing victory. Trump, the isolationist president who vowed to avoid foreign wars, has walked slap bang into a trap prepared by Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu – a trap his smarter predecessors avoided. Netanyahu has constantly exaggerated the immediacy of the Iranian nuclear threat. His alarmist speeches on this subject go back 30 years.... So, once again, the US has gone to war in the Middle East on the back of a lie, on disputed, probably faulty intelligence purposefully distorted for political reasons. Once again, as in Iraq in 2003, the overall objectives of the war are unclear, uncertain and open to interpretation.... Once again, there appears to be no 'exit strategy.'...”
Heather Cox Richardson puts a damper on all of Trump's bunker-buster bluster.
Alan Feuer of the New York Times: “In a sharp rebuke to the Justice Department, a federal judge said on Sunday that Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia should be freed from criminal custody as he awaits trial on smuggling charges after his wrongful deportation to El Salvador and return to the United States. In a scathing order, the judge, Barbara D. Holmes, ruled that Mr. Abrego Garcia was neither a flight risk nor a danger to the community. The decision undermined repeated claims by ... [Donald] Trump and some of his top aides who have described the Salvadoran immigrant as a violent gang member, even a terrorist. But the decision by Judge Holmes, filed in Federal District Court in Nashville, was likely to be a short-lived victory for Mr. Abrego Garcia and his defense team. The judge acknowledged that he would probably remain in the custody of immigration officials, as his charges of smuggling undocumented immigrants across the United States moved through the courts. Judge Holmes’s ruling was the first judicial evaluation of the charges filed against Mr. Abrego Garcia since he was suddenly brought back to U.S. soil last month after prosecutors indicted him in Nashville.” The ABC News story is here.
Jonah Bromwich of the New York Times interviews Mahmoud Khalil, who “was the first student protester targeted and detained by the Trump administration. On Friday, after having spent more than three months in detention in Jena, La., he was released on bail.... 'All the “Know Your Rights” information and fliers I read and familiarized myself with were useless,' Mr. Khalil said. 'There are no rights in such situations.... It felt like kidnapping,' he said.”
Catie Edmondson & Michael Gold of the New York Times: “The Senate parliamentarian, Elizabeth MacDonough..., rejected on Sunday a measure in Republicans’ sweeping domestic policy bill that could limit lawsuits seeking to block ... [Donald] Trump’s executive actions. The measure would target the preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders issued by federal judges on Mr. Trump’s directives. Those rulings have halted or delayed orders on a host of policies, including efforts to carry out mass firings of federal workers and to withhold funds from states that do not comply with demands on immigration enforcement. The G.O.P. proposal would require parties suing over federal policies to post a bond covering the government’s potential costs and damages from an injunction if thejudge ’s order were found later to have been wrongly granted.... Republicans are ... using special rules that shield legislation from a filibuster.... But to qualify for that protection, the legislation must only include proposals that directly change federal spending and not add to long-term deficits.... [Ms.] MacDonough ... ruled that the [injunctions and TRO] measure did not meet the requirements.” The Hill's story is here.
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Michigan. Amanda Holpuch of the New York Times: “A man clad in a tactical vest and carrying a long gun and handgun opened fire on a Michigan church filled with children attending Vacation Bible School on Sunday before being fatally shot by two members of the church’s staff, officials said. The shooting, which was reported a little after 11 a.m. at CrossPointe Community Church in Wayne, Mich., which is about 25 miles west of Detroit, left one church staff member with a gunshot wound in a leg, the Wayne police chief, Ryan Strong, said at a news conference on Sunday night. The staff members who opened fire were not publicly identified. The chief said the staff member who was shot had injuries that were not life-threatening. The chief credited the emergency training of staff and parishioners for swiftly responding to the threat.”
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Ukraine/Russia, et al. Lizzie Johnson & David Stern of the Washington Post: “The whine of drones and hiss of incoming missiles jarred the Ukrainian capital awake in an overnight Russian attack Monday that lasted hours and killed at least seven people and injured 31, officials said.... The attack came the same day the Russians said they would be contacting Ukraine about setting the date for a third round of negotiations to end the conflict. It was a familiar violent scene in the Ukrainian capital in the third year of the war. This time, the Ukrainian armed forces said, the attack consisted of 352 self-detonating drones and 16 missiles — mostly aimed at Kyiv. Though the majority were shot down, there were six direct hits. Fragments of downed aircraft hit 25 other locations. In a statement, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky pointed out that many of the drones were Iranian-designed Shaheds, which Russia now manufactures, and the missiles appear to have been made in North Korea.”
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Category error alert!
Shady Vance, in his own inimical way, makes an obviously obsequious obliteration of both logic and definitional accuracy. In perhaps the category error to top all such taxonomic tallies, the First Furniture Fondler excuses Fat Hitler from his list of “dumb presidents”.
Sorry, Shady. This is like talking about tallest mountains and forgetting Everest.
Jonathan Chait, in The Atlantic, on The Republican Megabill’s Horrible Compromise
"Two factions have vied to steer the administration’s agenda: Conservative populists came with a plan to roll back globalization and empower the working class. And the tech right brought a vision of an accelerated future driven by innovation and disruption.
,,,Trump would blend the two visions into a new synthesis that would simultaneously lift up his downscale voting base and unleash technological progress.Three months later, the product that has emerged is not a better iteration of the original Trumponomics, which consisted largely of conventional Republican policy, but a worse one, much worse. It has managed, amazingly, to abandon the two tribes’ most attractive proposals while retaining the least-appealing elements of each. It discards the futuristic ambition of the tech right while preserving its social Darwinism. It leans into the closed-off nostalgia of the populist right while ignoring populists’ impulse to help workers."
Amazing (and SAD!) Greg Sergent on Bluesky
Amazing
"NYT has more confirmation that Trump's decision to bomb Iran was motivated in large part by the way the Israeli strikes were "playing" on Fox News, which drove him to want credit for it"
"Russia: Other nations ready to supply Iran with nukes after U.S. strike
"What have the Americans accomplished with their nighttime strikes on three nuclear sites in Iran?" Medvedev questioned in a post on social media. "The enrichment of nuclear material -- and, now we can say it outright, the future production of nuclear weapons -- will continue. A number of countries are ready to directly supply Iran with their own nuclear warheads.""
Motto
Leavitt: "Nobody knows what it means to accomplish peace through strength better than President Trump. He is the one who came up with that motto and that foreign policy doctrine."
Fat Hitler is now yapping about MIGA, or Make Iran Great Again, which naturally leads one to wonder what “again” period does his Royal Fatness mean?
Back when Ayatollah Khomeini ran things as supreme leader? Hmm…that would be when he held all those Americans hostage and made that deal with Ronald Reagan. Probably not. Wouldn’t play well on Fox (see Laura’s link today).
How about just before that, when Reza Pahlavi, the Shah, ruled Iran with an iron fist, using his secret police thugs, SAVAK, to disappear citizens who criticized him, tortured and murdered them? Well, Fox loves them some secret police, and are cool with disappearing citizens, and torture doesn’t bother them as long as it’s the right people being tortured. But he had the palace and the crown and all that crap. Maybe Fatty means a little earlier when Iran was great.
In fact, for a few short years, Iran was pretty great. They had a Democratically elected leader, Mossadegh , a pretty good guy. Oops! But no. The US and Britain cooked up a coup to have Mossadegh kicked out. He thought Iranian oil should belong to Iran. Wrong! It belonged to the Brits, plus the US was getting their share as well.
Maybe he means back during the Persian Empire. Nah. That moron doesn’t know Xerxes from a turkey sandwich.
I guess he means an autocratic authoritarian guvmint like the one he has here in the US. But wait…isn’t that what they have now?
I’m confused.
But so is he. I guess he’ll do whatever plays on Fox. Isn’t that the best way to conduct foreign policy? Whatever hateful MAGA idiots sitting in their BarcaLoungers at home screaming at the TV think is best?
Yeah, that must be it.