The Conversation -- November 9, 2023
** Jack Has a Plan. Kyle Cheney of Politico: "A new court filing from [Jack] Smith's team this week reveals that the mob that stormed Congress in [Donald] Trump's name will be the centerpiece of his trial, scheduled to begin on March 4. It wasn't just an unfortunate reaction to Trump's incendiary remarks that day, prosecutors contend. It was a tool that Trump used to launch one last desperate bid to cling to power. Trump's criminal conspiracies 'culminated and converged' on Jan. 6, when he attempted to prevent Congress from finalizing Joe Biden's victory, argued senior assistant special counsel Molly Gaston. One of the ways that the defendant did so ... was to direct an angry crowd of his supporters to the Capitol and to continue to stoke their anger while they were rioting,' Gaston wrote in the filing.... By combining the Trump allegations with the riot, Smith is unlocking a mountain of case law developed in those Jan. 6 riot cases to tie Trump more clearly to the violence than he has been to date. In short, he's casting Trump as one of the 1,200-plus riot defendants who have already been charged....
"The words in Smith's filing are almost verbatim the case that the committee's vice chair, Liz Cheney, made at the panel's first public hearing.... To make [the prosecution's] case, Smith seems poised to adopt another tactic the select committee once used: testimony of the Jan. 6 rioters themselves, along with video of the mob's intense violence -- much of it coming after Trump repeatedly implored his supporters to march on the Capitol.... Dozens -- if not hundreds -- of those charged in the riot have pointed squarely at Trump for motivating their conduct. Thousands of Trump's supporters had already begun marching to the Capitol before Trump urged them to conduct their march 'peacefully and patriotically.'" ~~~
The new prosecution filing, which is here, was submitted in answer to Trump's motion to "prohibit federal prosecutors from even mentioning the chaos and violence unleashed by his supporters at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021." This answer is worth reading, too, as it provides not only a narrative of January 6 events but also evidence that Trump himself has previously admitted, in court filings, that the the indictment "directly alleges that [the defendant] 'directed [supporters] to the Capitol to obstruct the certification proceeding,"' and argued that any Select Committee records of his and others' knowledge and intent related to actions at the Capitol on January 6 "is plainly relevant."
Burgess Everett of Politico: "Joe Manchin will not seek reelection to the Senate, a move that essentially cedes his seat to the GOP in deep-red West Virginia and removes one of Congress' most prominent centrist voices in either party.... Manchin has repeatedly declined to rule out a third-party run for president, possibly on a ticket funded by the deep-pocketed group No Labels. He indicated that he may not be leaving the political scene entirely, saying that he will be 'traveling the country and speaking out to see if there is an interest in creating a movement to mobilize the middle.'" MB: Newsflash, Joe: A politician who avidly promotes fossil fuel is not :in the middle." Anyhow, I have the feeling Joe looked in the mirror and saw a distinguished senator who should be president.
Margaret Sullivan of the Guardian: Reading the results of a poll that "showed Donald Trump winning the presidential election by significant margins over Joe Biden in several swing states..., [plus] Biden's low approval ratings, despite his accomplishments, and you come to an unavoidable conclusion: the news media needs to do its job better. The press must get across to American citizens the crucial importance of this election and the dangers of a Trump win.... Instead, journalists have emphasized Joe Biden's age and Trump's 'freewheeling' style. They blame the public's attitudes on 'polarization', as if they themselves have no role. And, of course, they make the election about the horse race -- rather than what would happen a few lengths after the finish line. Here's what must be hammered home: Trump cannot be re-elected if you want the United States to be a place where elections decide outcomes, where voting rights matter, and where politicians don't baselessly prosecute their adversaries." Thanks to Elizabeth for the link.
From CNN's liveblog on the Israel/Hamas war, also linked below: "Israel will begin to implement four-hour pauses of military operations in areas of northern Gaza each day, the White House says, to allow for humanitarian assistance and to allow civilians to flee. Israel will announce the timing of the pauses three hours beforehand, according to John Kirby, a spokesperson for the US National Security Council. 'We've been told by the Israelis that there will be no military operations in these areas over the duration of the pause, and that this process is starting today,' Kirby said." MB: It seems pretty clear, from comments President Biden made to reporters, that the U.S. is behind these temporary ceasefires. I doubt if Trump -- or any of the bozos on Wednesday night's debate state, would have instigated these humanitarian pauses.
Marcy Wheeler: "Right in the middle of an impeachment for extorting Volodymyr Zelenskyy to dig up dirt on the Bidens and Burisma, Bill Barr's DOJ shut down a corruption investigation into Burisma's Mykola Zlochevsky. Then, days later, Barr set up a process that would insert an allegation that Zlochevsky bribed Joe Biden into the ongoing investigation of Hunter Biden. That is -- by far -- the most scandalous allegation that has come out of the Jamie Comer and Jim Jordan -led effort to gin up an impeachment of Joe Biden. Bill Barr's DOJ shut down an investigation into Zlochevsky's corruption, and then mainlined an allegation of corruption involving Zlochevsky into the investigation of Joe Biden's son. To be fair, the claim that Bill Barr's DOJ shut down a corruption investigation of Zlochevsky didn't come from Comer or Jordan. It came from [Sen.] Chuck Grassley [R-Iowa]. Thanks to RAS for the link. MB: Just is case you were wondering if Barr's DOJ might have been politically corrupt right at the tippy-top.
~~~~~~~~~~
Glenn Thrush of the New York Times: "The Biden administration has chosen a vacant lot in Greenbelt, Md., for the new headquarters of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, despite the lingering concerns of some senior bureau officials, four people familiar with the situation said late Wednesday. The plan, which is expected to be made public on Thursday, could still face internal hurdles and zoning or funding issues, but if it goes through it would end one of the most hotly contested bureaucratic decisions of the past decade. Under the proposal, the sprawling campus will be near the Greenbelt Metro station as part of a larger multiuse development. It would replace the crumbling J. Edgar Hoover Building in downtown Washington, which is sheathed in netting to shield passers-by from falling concrete." Politico's story is here.
Matt Seyler & Luis Martinez of ABC News: "The U.S. military on Wednesday said American warplanes struck a weapons storage facility in eastern Syria that officials said was being used by Iran-backed militants responsible for dozens of drone and rocket attacks against American troops in the region over the last three weeks. It was the second such counterstrike in the past two weeks.... Two F-15 fighters launched precision munitions at a weapons-storage warehouse in Deir el-Zour province, according to U.S. officials. 'This precision self-defense strike is a response to a series of attacks against U.S. personnel in Iraq and Syria by IRGC-Quds Force affiliates. The President has no higher priority than the safety of U.S. personnel, and he directed today's action to make clear that the United States will defend itself, its personnel, and its interests,' [Defense Secretary Lloyd] Austin said [in a prepared statement]."
Holmes Lybrand of CNN: "Three individuals have been arrested on charges of operating a 'high-end brothel network' in Massachusetts and Virginia with a clientele that included elected officials, military officers and government contractors with security clearances, the Justice Department announced Wednesday.... [Acting U.S. attorney for Massachusetts Joshua] Levy did not identify any of the brothel's clients and noted that multiple search warrants are being executed in the case in Massachusetts, California and Virginia. Han Lee, 41, of Cambridge, Massachusetts; James Lee, 68, of Torrance, California; and Junmyung Lee, 30, of Dedham, Massachusetts have been charged with conspiracy to coerce and entice to travel to engage in illegal sexual activity."
Luke Broadwater of the New York Times: "House Republicans on Wednesday issued subpoenas demanding testimony from Hunter and James Biden, the president's son and brother, as they hunt for evidence to try to build an impeachment case against him. Representative James R. Comer, Republican of Kentucky and the chairman of the Oversight Committee, authorized the subpoenas of President Biden's family members as well as Rob Walker, one of their business associates. It was the most significant move in the impeachment inquiry since Republicans announced they were opening it in September, despite no evidence that the president had committed high crimes or misdemeanors.... Also on Wednesday, Mr. Comer demanded that other Biden family members submit to transcribed interviews. He sent letters seeking interviews to Sara Biden; Hallie Biden, the widow of Beau Biden, the president's older son; Elizabeth Secundy, Hallie Biden's sister; Melissa Cohen, who is married to Hunter Biden; and Tony Bobulinski, a former associate of Hunter Biden's who has accused the Bidens of wrongdoing." CNN's story is here. (Also linked yesterday.) ~~~
~~~ Marie: Really? The sister of the widow of the deceased brother of the living son of the President? I'm surprised they didn't subpoena Joe's dogs, too. Then, instead of biting themselves in the ass with another failed fishing expedition, Commander could do the job for them.
Brandi Buchman of Law & Crime: "In a 3-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan ordered [Donald] Trump to finally declare whether he intends to use an 'advice of counsel' defense at his criminal trial in the nation's capital no later than Jan. 15, 2024. Prosecutors asked the judge in October to set a Dec. 18 deadline, sharing concerns that Trump was waiting 'until the eve of trial' to formally declare his strategy." (Also linked yesterday.)
Jonah Bromwich & Ben Protess of the New York Times: "... on Wednesday, Ivanka Trump calmly sidestepped accusations that her family's business prospered thanks to a lie. Ms. Trump ... was questioned for five hours about her father's net worth and the loans he received because of it. While some evidence suggested that Ms. Trump had dealt directly with her father's annual financial statements, which listed the value of his assets, she said that her focus had been elsewhere. 'I would assume he would have personal financial statements,' she said, adding, 'Those weren't things that I was privy to.' The trial stems from a lawsuit filed by the attorney general, Letitia James, that accuses ... Donald J. Trump and his family business of fraudulently inflating his wealth on the financial statements." ~~~
~~~ Here are the New York Times' live updates of Ivanka Trump's testimony in the Trump Family Fraud case. See yesterday's Conversation for some excerpts. CNN's live updates are here. (Also linked yesterday.)
Seth takes a closer look at the news:
Presidential Race 2024
Nicholas Riccardi & Steve Peoples of the AP: "... five Republican presidential candidates gathered Wednesday for the party's latest debate. [Donald] Trump, the overwhelming front-runner in the race, skipped the event, as he has the first two, citing his polling advantage. There was no shortage of noteworthy confrontations on stage, as the participants debated the Israel-Hamas war, the future of abortion rights and Trump himself. But with the Jan. 15 Iowa caucuses approaching, it seemed unlikely that the debate fundamentally changed the presidential nomination fight.... Moderators from NBC News opened by pressing the contenders to articulate why they -- and not Trump -- should become the Republican nominee. There was hardly a robust takedown of Trump...." ~~~
~~~ Judging by news stories, this is the top takeaway from the event (quote from the AP story linked above): "... halfway through the debate, after Haley said she'd respond to Ramaswamy's digs rather than answer a question about banning Tik-Tok, that Ramaswamy made his most shocking attack. Noting Haley hadn't answered the question, Ramaswamy said, 'Her own daughter was using the app for a long time, so you might want to take care of your daughter first.' Haley responded by forcefully telling Ramaswamy to 'leave my daughter out of your voice.' She later said, 'You're just scum.'" ~~~
~~~ NBC News, which hosted this first not-Fox debate, reports what it calls highlights. ~~~
~~~ Natalie Allison & Meredith McGraw of Politico: Tim Scott brings his girlfriend. ~~~
~~~ Marie: The biggest debate about the debate seems to be centered on whether or not Vivek Ramaswamy called Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky a Nazi. Ken Bensinger of the New York Times gets the record right. Many other outlets have not been as kindly to Ramaswamy. For what it's worth, I don't think Vivek meant what he seemed to say, but that's only because I already knew the context. Note to Vivek: a president should know how to speak carefully and clearly -- and also not be a scum. ~~~
~~~ Speaking of scums who don't know how to speak carefully & clearly ~~~
~~~ Meredith McGraw & Alex Isenstadt of Politico: "Donald Trump spent the third presidential primary debate 10 miles away, musing about how dull the night he was ditching surely was. 'They're not watchable,' Trump said of the Republican forum taking place in Miami as he spoke. 'You know, the last debate was the lowest-rated debate in the history of politics, so therefore do you think we did the right thing by not participating?' Trump said to cheers in the crowd." AND ~~~
~~~ Marie: According MSNBC this morning, Trump is still very confused. Despite having made the same mistake last week, he can't find Hungary on a map, claiming again that it borders Ukraine & Russia. While Hungary does have a teeny border with Ukraine, nowhere does it come close to abutting Russia. Trump also confused China and North Korea, calling Little Kim the leader of 1.4 billion people, the approximately number of people living in China. North Korea's population is more like 26 million.
Patrick Marley of the Washington Post: "The Minnesota Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that ... Donald Trump can appear on the primary ballot next year but left open the possibility he could be struck from the general election ballot because of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.... In a short court order, Minnesota Chief Justice Natalie E. Hudson said the justices are dismissing the case because the state's March 5 primary is 'an internal party election to serve internal party purposes' that does not provide the final determination of who appears on the ballot for the general election in November 2024.'... Trump praised the ruling in a statement posted on his Truth Social platform: 'Congratulations to all who fought this HOAX!'"
Brooks Barnes, et al., of the New York Times: "SAG-AFTRA, the union representing tens of thousands of actors, reached a tentative deal for a new contract with entertainment companies on Wednesday, clearing the way for the $134 billion American movie and television business to swing back into motion. Hollywood's assembly lines have been at a near-standstill since May because of a pair of strikes by writers and actors, resulting in financial pain for studios and for many of the two million Americans -- makeup artists, set builders, location scouts, chauffeurs, casting directors -- who work in jobs directly or indirectly related to making TV shows and films. Upset about streaming-service pay and fearful of fast-developing artificial intelligence technology, actors joined screenwriters on picket lines in July. The writers had walked out in May over similar concerns. It was the first time since 1960, when Ronald Reagan was the head of the actors' union and Marilyn Monroe was still starring in films, that actors and writers were both on strike." NPR's story is here.
~~~~~~~~~~
Israel/Palestine
The Washington Post's live updates of developments Thursday in the Israel/Hamas war are here: "An estimated 50,000 people fled the north of Gaza through a 'corridor' opened by the Israeli military Wednesday, according to the U.N. humanitarian affairs agency, as Israeli ground troops pushed deeper into Gaza City and clashed with Hamas militants. U.N. human rights commissioner Volker Türk accused both Hamas and Israel of war crimes, citing the 'the atrocities perpetrated' by Hamas on Oct. 7 and 'the collective punishment by Israel of Palestinian civilians.' French President Emmanuel Macron convened an international aid conference on Thursday, with dozens of world leaders, as well as U.N. and Red Cross officials, expected to attend." ~~~
~~~ The New York Times' live updates are here. CNN's updates are here.
Michael Shear of the New York Times: "Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said Wednesday that Gaza should be unified with the West Bank under the Palestinian Authority once the war is over, offering a strong signal about what the United States sees as its preferred endgame in the fight between Israel and Hamas. The message, delivered during a meeting of foreign ministers in Tokyo, came as President Biden feels growing pressure to use his leverage to push for sustainable, long-term goals in the region and minimize civilian casualties. But increasingly, the United States and Israel are showing signs that their interests are diverging."
Ukraine, et al. David Stern, et al., of the Washington Post: "Members of Ukraine's 128th Mountain Assault Brigade gathered Friday morning for a medal ceremony near the front line in the southeastern region of Zaporizhzhia -- continuing a military tradition dating back to Soviet times, which Ukrainian officials had sustained to prop up morale among exhausted troops.... But instead of celebrating the fighters' bravery and service, the award ceremony turned into a bloodbath. A Russian missile strike killed at least 19 soldiers in attendance, including several high-ranking officers and some of the brigade's best warriors. Many had removed their helmets for the proceedings and suffered head injuries. Dozens of others were wounded.... The awful toll from the ceremony, which was called in honor of Ukrainian Missile Force and Artillery Day, has raised searing questions about why such a large public event was held in a location that could easily be seen by Russian drones and was well within range of Russian missiles."
News Lede
CNN: “A suspect has been taken into custody in last month's killing of Detroit synagogue president Samantha Woll, Detroit Police said Wednesday. In a statement on X, Police Chief James E. White said details of the investigation will remain confidential at this time.... Investigators are treating her death as arising from a domestic dispute and not extremism, according to a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation."
Share Article
Reader Comments (13)
One day Texas may join the 21st century, but not today.
"Texans Vote in Favor of Billions for Fossil Fuels, Leaving Out Renewables as an Option
Funding won’t go to wind and solar, worrying environmental advocates who say they are better backups for the state’s troubled grid"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/11/09/clarence-thomas-ginni-harlan-crow-gifts/
My comment:
The list somehow called to mind the old Dick Tracy Rogues Gallery, Pruneface only one among them.
Marcy Wheeler
"DONALD TRUMP’S DOJ SHUT DOWN A BURISMA CORRUPTION INVESTIGATION OPENED WHILE JOE BIDEN WAS VP
Right in the middle of an impeachment for extorting Volodymyr Zelenskyy to dig up dirt on the Bidens and Burisma, Bill Barr’s DOJ shut down a corruption investigation into Burisma’s Mykola Zlochevsky.
Then, days later, Barr set up a process that would insert an allegation that Zlochevsky bribed Joe Biden into the ongoing investigation of Hunter Biden."
It will be most interesting to hear who trump chooses as his running
mate, Eric, Jr., or Princess Ivanka.
Would that be Dumb, Dumber and Dumbest?
Nasty me!
Forrest,
The Orange Monster has already floated (or farted) his idea for a possible running mate.
It’s that ol’ ‘lection denying hero of the victorious Dominion lawsuit, TuKKKer KKKarlson.
Just imagine what that administration would be like.
By the by, anyone thinking of adding a link or two to the conversation, try the link generator referred to above and to the right. It’s a great tool, very easy to use.
And you don’t need a lot of additional commentary, set up, or other blah, blah, blah (like some out here are prone to do). You can just say “Here’s something cool, weird, stupid, Trumpy, outrageous, odd, humorous, philosophical, dialectical, hypothetical, exegetical, non theoretical, parenthetical, antithetical, or dumbetical”. And leave it at that. Very linkagetical.
Open letter to Bill Barr:
Say Bill,
When you were a little boy, did your mother ever tell you that if you made a silly face it might stick there, and you'd have to live with it? I just wondered, if your mom had hauled off and slapped that smug, self-satisfied, smirk right off of your fat little face, would we have to be looking at it? I guess we'll never know.
Preaching to the choir, but this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/09/trump-president-democracy-threat-media-journalism
And Marie, I share your astonishment: Comer subpoenaed the sister of the widow of the deceased brother of the president's living son? Did Joe Biden give her a birthday gift once, an obvious bribe?
D,
Maybe (Dis)Barry’s mum should smack him anyway, just for good measure. Oh, wait…she can’t do it. Oh. Okay. I’ll be happy to volunteer. Now where did I put those brass knuckles?
The media, the Turing Test, and the Chinese Room
I give up. You’d think at this late date, that members of the fourth estate would realize by now that Party of Traitors pols, apparatchiks, supporters, connivers, and apologists are spouting barking mad bullshit which does in no way deserves to be treated as if they’re making convincing arguments that should be taken seriously.
But listen to any news report and here’s what you hear:
“Kentucky Representative James Comer has issued subpoenas to Biden family members in an effort to get to the bottom of corruption charges! Democrats say it’s all political.”
This is like saying “So the guy ran into the store, shot the place up, took seven hostages, threatened to garrote them on a Facebook livestream unless he gets a million dollars and a private plane to fly him out of the country! Someone else says this never happened.”
Just read the reviews of the latest PoT circular firing squad exercise, aka debate. “Kill Hamas! Kill Biden! Kill, kill, kill! Scum!”
And this should be reported on as if it were a meeting at the Constitutional Convention, circa 1787? “Oh! Doesn’t Ron DeSantis remind you of James Madison?” No. Madison didn’t wear go-go boots or attack a cartoon mouse.
So I’m sure you’ve all heard about the Turing Test. Created by computer scientist and logician, Alan Turing, this test suggests that if a person is unable to distinguish between talking to a machine and a person, then the computer’s artificial intelligence could said to have arrived at a place of serious consideration.
This is (almost) what’s going on as certain members of the press ask questions (when they’re not obediently regurgitating what they’re told) of Party of Traitor hacks and liars. “Oh! It sounds like a real person. I guess they must be human!”
No. But let’s set that aside for the nonce.
Now let’s go into the Chinese Room.
Philosopher John Searle, considering the implications of the Turing Test, wasn’t convinced. He came up with a thought experiment called the Chinese Room (a quickie review is here.). Briefly, you’ve got someone in a locked room. She has boxes of Chinese characters, which she doesn’t understand. But she also has a big ol’ instruction book which she can understand. Along comes a native Chinese speaker. He slips a question under the door. The woman in the room looks up the characters in the book, selects the right characters from the boxes and formulates a response. “Hey!” sez the guy outside (or whatever “hey” is in Chinese). “A real live Chinese speaker!”
But, of course, that’s not true.
Searle’s point is that a machine (or that lady in the room) that does some calculations and spits out a response is no proof of actual intelligence, artificial or not.
But today we have a shitload (don’t know how to say that in Chinese either) of media types slipping questions to someone in the Republican Room, getting something that sounds like it came from an actual thinking human, and treating that person as someone with intelligence, someone whose responses are worthy of respect and (dear god!) repetition!
This is the outcome even if the answers slipped back under the door make no sense at all. Even if these answers are alarming and completely whacked.
ChatGOP.
The problem is, even when the door is open and it’s clear the person inside is a blithering idiot/liar/traitor/con artist, the press still treats them as if they are reasonable human beings.
And now we’ve got AI modeling out there that is even more powerful. And plenty of bad actors ready to spring it on the world. And that shitload of reporters waiting to retransmit the bullshit wholesale.
And no test will convince them otherwise.
Joe Manchin decides to fuck Democrats! Yeah!
So Joe's going on a national fossil fuel tour.
Maybe he'll get stuck in Texas.
Many years ago I wrote something to The New York Times, which I would have to look up, because I don't remember what it was, but I got a positive shout-out from Margaret Sullivan, who was the editorial police, or whatever she was called (something official--) and since then, she went to the WaPo, I believe, and now she is at the Guardian. She is solid with credentials. I would believe anything she says, and she says the press is behaving like star-struck groupies of these people, instead of treating them like they are the idiots they are. Thanks, Margaret. That is huge-- the press has been deeply responsible for the election and the unelection of the Mango Moron. And not just Fox.
Also I want to probably drown Joe the NonDemocrat. I wish he would simply go away, without the self-satisfied crap he feeds to us, when we all know what a s*** he is. So many creeps, so little time. Please to add Bill Barr to the list of self-satisfied frenetic freaks.